Sports stadium financing, an honest article

Been the same for decades, any legitimate economist will not say that public financing is a good idea for a sports franchise stadium.

And yet, we keep doing it…

I think it depends on the value of the team… not a blank check.

IMHO an NFL team enhances the status and standing of a city.
Makes it more desirable for attracting Business and Company HQs. However, the city should not give the store away… they should retain like Parking or Naming or ability to rent for other functions especially if domed… and Other features to recover some expense.

An MLB team in my opinion, less so but still attractive to the city.

As for NBA and NHL… who givers a flying F***?

An NHL team may have value in Boston or Chicago or Minnesota… but Arizona… :cold_face: :cold_face: :cold_face:

The Coyotes have been a problem NHL child for a long time. There were several battles with the city of Glendale, where they previously played and were evicted or nonpayment of rent. Now they are playing in a 5-6,000 arena on the ASU campus in Tempe. Rumors frequently pop up that the NHL will move the team, but nothing concrete ever forms. Current team management is better than their predecessors. So, who knows what will happen.

There are hundreds of thousands of people from the midwest living in the Phoenix area so the ticket demand should be there. We’ve attended a number of Red Wing games at the old America West Arena downtown and the Glendale Arena. Seeing my Red Wings’ shirt, a guy I was sitting next to me at one game said he liked it when the Red Wings came to town because attendance would go up 2-3,000. The Wings’ fans were cheering louder the Coyotes’ fans and drowning them out. The team has just never been able to develop a solid following.

Oh, and PP, who gives a flying F? I do.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman seems hell-bent on keeping the Coyotes in the Phoenix area come hell or high water. And, that wonderful new arena has not been approved yet. Under almost anybody else the team would have been allowed to relocate many years ago.

Me too.

It is an Armani suit.
Looks good, but at a certain point, not worth the money.

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I think a major issue is no other city is going to be willing to subsidize an arena.

Me three.

As one example off the top of my head, Quebec City built an NHL- standard arena a few years ago. That is there for the calling right now.

Is Quebec big enough to support an NHL franchise?
KC is bigger and that is a concern here.
I am not arguing, but just trying to ask a real question.

It is under the same category as Winnipeg. Like Winnipeg, Quebec City had an NHL franchise before but lost it in the 1990s when the NHL’s economic system and weak Canadian dollar killed the small market Canadian franchises. The NHL now has a different system, and the Atlanta Thrashers were allowed to relocate to Winnipeg. I think Quebec City could make it. Hockey would be the only game in town.

Edit: Here is information on the arena there.

I can see that being a factor (as well as it being in Canada).
One of the reasons I bring this up in the first place is there is talk in KC of relocating the baseball stadium to downtown.
I really don’t care where they play, but we are already paying a 3/8 cent sales tax for them to play in their current stadium until 2031.
The new owner has the nerve to say he probably won’t ask for “any more”. If I have my way he will get no direct tax subsidy.
I will probably go to several of the community meetings with real data and make sure the public is fully informed.

Never under estimate the popularity of NHL hockey in Canada. Quebec is usually near the top of the list of possible move sites for the next move or new franchise, but their metro area is somewhere around only one million.

I don’t know why Bettman is so against moving the Coyote franchise, but I think they have plenty of chances to show they could be successful and they have failed. Other sun belt cities, Miami, Tampa, Dallas and Las Vegas have very successful NHL teams. The new Seattle team looks like it will be the same, and even Columbus is successful in the middle of Ohio. For some reason, Phoenix is not. So, I would be opposed to any public spending to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix.

Maybe all the hockey fans moved to Florida and the baseball and football fans moved to Phoenix.

Allegedly the KC area has the highest hockey viewership in the country for a non-franchise market.
And we have an arena.

The teams make bank. They can fund their own stadiums.


I remember back when Jim Balsillie, then Chair and co-CEO of Research in Motion (Blackberry), tried to buy the Coyotes and move them to Hamilton, Ontario. He essentially tried to strong-arm his way into buying the team and moving it rather than following the NHL’s rules and procedures, and he pissed off Bettman in the process. At that point it got personal with Bettman, regardless as to how much business sense this made, though at the same time I don’t know how much sense it made to put a team in Hamilton, so close to Buffalo and Toronto.

I remember reading an article contrasting how Balsillie went about trying to get a franchise with how the owners of the Winnipeg Jets went about purchasing the Atlanta Thrashers and moving them. They made sure not to piss the wrong people off, especially Bettman.

Here is one good article on how Balsillie went about things:

This thread is still open, so what better time to resurrect it with the latest on the Arizona Coyotes. This is comical.

The NHL could have worked a deal to move the team to Vegas or Seattle, but wanted to expand the league and even the number of teams in the Western and Eastern Conferences (which included moving the Red Wings from the west to the east). I think that is still may be a goal, as Nashville and Chicago remain in the west. Maybe that’s why the league is reluctant to do away with Phoenix. Ironically, the current Winnipeg team seems to be far more successful than the Coyotes.

In a related note, the remaining teams in the Stanley Cup playoff are, for the first time, all sun belt teams - Vegas, Dallas, Florida and Carolina. Or, as my wife puts it, all places that shouldn’t even have an NHL team regardless of how good they are.

Two things;

  1. The article states that of the $2.1 billion, $1.9 of it is private money. At that point, why even ask for public money? What was in the three referendums that got voted down?
  2. Kansas City is mentioned as a relocation. We have the T-Mobile Center right now, as long as the team doesn’t ask for anything other money, I think they would be welcomed and attendance would be great.

Bring back the Kansas City Scouts.