Why is democracy bad?

LOL no, no it wasn’t. The movie was; the book was not.

No. The book Starship Troopers (1959) by Robert A. Heinlein is not a satire of fascism. It is a straightforward (and controversial) military adventure novel that seriously explores ideas about citizenship, civic responsibility, and the limitations of unrestricted democracy.

What the book actually depicts

In the novel, full citizenship—including the right to vote and hold office—is earned through voluntary federal service (military or other public service). Key details include:

  • Service is voluntary; there is no conscription.
  • Active military personnel cannot vote or hold office.
  • Non-citizens retain other civil rights (property, speech, etc.).
  • The protagonist Johnny Rico is Filipino, and the military is multiracial and includes women in significant roles.
  • The government is a representative democracy limited to citizens, not a dictatorship or one-party state.

Heinlein presents this system positively as a way to couple rights with responsibility. He wrote it partly in reaction to anti-nuclear testing advocacy and concerns about declining civic virtue. The book has long been accused of militarism or fascism by some critics (a charge that helped generate controversy and sales), but Heinlein rejected the label. He noted that the society lacks a dictator, racial hierarchy, or the subordination of the individual typical of fascism, and he later clarified that most federal service was intended to be non-military.

Analyses that apply standard definitions of fascism generally conclude the book does not fit: it is more of a right-libertarian or civic-duty thought experiment than a fascist tract. Heinlein’s other work (e.g., The Moon is a Harsh Mistress) further shows his individualist leanings.

The movie is the satire

The 1997 Paul Verhoeven film is a very different work and is an intentional satire of fascism and militarism. Verhoeven (who grew up under Nazi occupation) disliked the novel, could not finish it, and used its basic setup—along with Nazi-style propaganda aesthetics, over-the-top newsreels, and exaggerated “service guarantees citizenship” rhetoric—to mock authoritarian militarism. The film has little of the book’s philosophical content and was originally developed under a different title before being tied to Heinlein’s novel for marketing. Many viewers initially missed the satire; later reappraisals recognized it.

In short: the book is a serious (if polarizing) argument for earned citizenship and military valor. The movie is the one that satirizes fascism.

While I agree that the benefits of citizenship should come to those with some skin in the game I’m notsure that participation in that same governing structure as a player under the guidance of an elite command structure would be advisable or well received by the masses. Another fallicy in that scenario would have to rely on the assumption that the service experience would bestow the appropriate skills neccesary to be a capable and competent voter.

My opinion is likely colored by my first-hand experience as an enlisted man in the US Navy, it didnt provide what I would consider to an effective nor intellectualy stimulating learning environment. :slightly_smiling_face:

Is that how we got Trump in the WH not once but twice?

You need to read the book. It isn’t just military service. Military service is just the quickest path. It is doing something for the nation that earns you your citizenship. A sacrifice that you made to the country.
The idea is that something that isn’t earned doesn’t hold the same value as something you worked to get.

Yes, the democrats ran such idiots that Trump looked like a good idea.

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Both of those female democrats were spot on with their prediction of Trump. Apparently, I’m not an idiot I never voted for him.

Had they run better people they would have beat Trump.

Trump only won both times because he was running against females, you can admit it now. Sleepy Joe beat Trump.

I don’t think that was it. They ran two people who were awful.

They still have to register - just in case. And with our testosterone driven “war” secretary and his boss…an octogenarian who started a war all by himself without the input of congress…they need to be able to elect representatives with a spine to stand up to that.

We also need to reexamine what constitutes an “emergency” since the bulk of Trump’s second term, including wars, has been due to “emergencies”.

My beautiful little friend from Paraguay (who is an American citizen) had to pass a test that most Americans wouldn’t be able to pass. Especially MAGA.

(eye roll)

There are more women registered voters than men, a lot of them must have thought Hillary and Harris were idiots and that Trump was the better person for the job.

Gotta disagree here. The Democrats pretty much named Hillary, who has been demonized by the right since 1992, into the nomination. That was hurdle number one. While Trump can get away with calling Mexican’s rapists, Hillary made a second mistake by calling them the deplorables. IMHO, if Bernie been the nominee in 2016 he may well have won.

2020 was unique time because Trump spent 4 years getting over half the country to dislike him. And Biden, however addled he was, was a much more appealing candidate than Trump. But he should have been a one term, placeholder President and the Democrats should have spent 4 years vetting their 2024 candidate. And they should have at least told him not to run again.

As it ended up, Biden painted Democrats into a corner by running for a second term, only to be exposed in a debate too late in the process. Had there been a convention, I don’t think Harris would have been the nominee. Hell…had Biden died in office and she ascended to the presidency, I think there still may have been a primary. I voted for Harris because I thought she was better than Trump…and I believe we will see just how bad Trump is tomorrow night. I fully expect our president to lead the charge to negate the election of 2026. But the reason that Trump won in 2024 can be laid at the feet of Joe Biden…and NOT because of his policies, but by his decision to run again.

Good for her?

How would you propose that a person “earn” citizenship? For what it’s worth, she was a lawyer in Paraguay and is a small business owner here. But let’s say it’s my grandson…he was born here…what steps do you think he should to do “earn” citizenship?

I literally cited a book.

Sorry, but no. He beat two Democrats with flaws who happened to be female.

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A work of fiction. Are you a Scientologist?